I'd personally recommend a full body 3x week split because IMO you should focus on the basics until you've mastered them, and then by the time you're done, you've built enough strength to move meaningful weight by the time you transition to PPL
I'm asking because I've been lifting the PPL routine since I began at the gym two and a half years ago, started at 120lb and now I'm at around 165lb now, been that weight for a while and still DYEL as fuck. would a 3x or 4x week split allow me to put on more muscle?
my diet has been consistent >breakfast: protein shake (one scoop whey, banana, scoop of peanut butter, milk), coffee (another one later in the morning), fish oil tablet, vitamin d tablet >lunch will be 3 eggs and 1 or 2 chicken breasts, sometimes oatmeal with seasame seeds but if I include that I'm usually very full. >dinner is more varied but usually one full plate of veges and meat, salad, magnesium tablet around this time. >often drink a few glasses of milk in the afternoon >snack foods include almonds, crackers and cheese, on the unhealthier side sometimes potato crisps or corn chips with salsa
I tried counting calories in the beginning but generally I try to eat as much as I can
I'm 6'0 for context.
>I tried counting calories in the beginning but generally I try to eat as much as I can
You're a fucking idiot
If you aren't gaining weight, you clearly aren't eating enough. How is this a fucking hard concept?
If you're too stupid to eat enough to gain, count your calories.
Well to better answer your question, can you give more details on your PPL? Including weight, sets, reps, and perceived exertion. Assuming that you're lifting adequate weight in your major lifts, there isn't a pressing need to go to square 1 if you've been doing PPL for over 2 years already
Also, if you can afford it, think about following the vertical diet by Stan Efferding or the Weston A Price diet model. A lot of emphasis on nutrient dense, easy to digest foods which should help you to pack on mass
It's 6 compound exercises per session (horizontal/vertical pull/push, hinge, squat) three times per week. For each exercise, I do a warm up set or two, then a working set with 70-90% of my 1RM @RPE 8-10, and maybe one or two more sets for practice afterwards, primarily when my working set was in the upper end of the load range just to get some extra reps in. The difference to what I did before, when I was plateauing big time, is just reducing working sets from 3-5 to 1.
If you feel like you're working hard and not progressing, despite eating/sleeping well, try something like this and see if it helps. It's working for me, at least for the time being.
What clued me in that I was overtraining (or under-recovering), apart from lack of progress, was that I would often be even more sore two days after my last workout than the day after. Pretty obvious in hindsight, but I was too reluctant to deviate too much from the common formula. It's a shame because I got my OHP/bench to over 1/2pl8s in well under a year, but got stuck there for months afterwards. Now I'm back to adding a rep to my working set every week or two.
>[...] >I tried counting calories in the beginning but generally I try to eat as much as I can
You're a fucking idiot
If you aren't gaining weight, you clearly aren't eating enough. How is this a fucking hard concept?
If you're too stupid to eat enough to gain, count your calories.
You're lying.
I've met many people like you who claim they eat "so much", all liars.
He has literally put 45lbs and you ask if he is eating enough? Pic rel is 163lbs.
The answer is he is eating too much, he has only gained fat and no muscle.
His problem is shitty training. He is simply not doing progressive overload and stimulating muscle growth.
He's made the thread because HE'S NOT GAINING ANY MORE WEIGHT
ANY
MORE
Obtuse fuck
Let's add some nuance bros. His maintenance clearly increased and is higher at 163lbs than when he started, and now he's plateaud. So to continue to add weight, he needs to either eat more or decrease TDEE (at which point a 4-day split might be useful).
1 year ago
Anonymous
Training doesn't burn anywhere near that much calories and training less will decrease his appetite which is the opposite of what he wants.
Have any of you trained a single day in your life or are you all really this stupid?
Similar to other anons are saying are you still progressing weight wise? If not are you experiencing any signs of overtraining? If you’ve been lifting for 2.5 years I wouldn’t consider you a beginner, doesn’t hurt to switch things up if you feel like you’re stalling.
other way around
starting strength is an intermediate program but copy pasted by fat nerds online who dont workout
[...]
I'm asking because I've been lifting the PPL routine since I began at the gym two and a half years ago, started at 120lb and now I'm at around 165lb now, been that weight for a while and still DYEL as fuck. would a 3x or 4x week split allow me to put on more muscle?
SS is not a program for putting on muscle, its a program for powerlifting and staying a dyel but telling yourself squatting more will change that (it wont)
my diet has been consistent >breakfast: protein shake (one scoop whey, banana, scoop of peanut butter, milk), coffee (another one later in the morning), fish oil tablet, vitamin d tablet >lunch will be 3 eggs and 1 or 2 chicken breasts, sometimes oatmeal with seasame seeds but if I include that I'm usually very full. >dinner is more varied but usually one full plate of veges and meat, salad, magnesium tablet around this time. >often drink a few glasses of milk in the afternoon >snack foods include almonds, crackers and cheese, on the unhealthier side sometimes potato crisps or corn chips with salsa
I tried counting calories in the beginning but generally I try to eat as much as I can
I'm 6'0 for context.
if you arent logging your calories then your "diet" is meaningless because you have no idea what your macros are
youre literally just fucking around and hoping that its "enough"
not typing any more advice for this lazy fuck
I'd personally recommend a full body 3x week split because IMO you should focus on the basics until you've mastered them, and then by the time you're done, you've built enough strength to move meaningful weight by the time you transition to PPL
You don't. You do full body. 3x a week. So an example would be workouts A, B, and C.
A has back squats, Romanian deadlifts, bench Press, and bent row
B has deadlifts at heavy weight low reps, lunges, OHP, and pull ups
C has front squats, deadlifts at moderate weight higher volume, upright rows, and abs
it's fine for beginner to advanced depending on how you split up your days. It's slightly more complicated to program around than fullbodies which is the only reason I'd potentially discourage it but if you know what you're doing you can make any split work. Effective programming makes a bigger difference than routine of xyz days.
Burnout or accumulating fatigue is going to happen no matter what routine you run and it's not a bad thing it's just another obstacle programming helps you solve.
You should find out the minimum volume you need to progress and only try increasing it once you stall. I wasted months of gains by trusting le science on the "10-20 sets/week @RPE8" thing until I figured out I was overtraining. Turns out I progress much better doing just one hard working set per exercise three times per week, plus some lighter warmup/practice sets far from failure.
>Turns out I progress much better doing just one hard working set per exercise three times per week
can you clarify this remark? is it like 3x10 3 times a week but one set per session actually taken close to failure? Or like 1 set of each exercise per session?
It's 6 compound exercises per session (horizontal/vertical pull/push, hinge, squat) three times per week. For each exercise, I do a warm up set or two, then a working set with 70-90% of my 1RM @RPE 8-10, and maybe one or two more sets for practice afterwards, primarily when my working set was in the upper end of the load range just to get some extra reps in. The difference to what I did before, when I was plateauing big time, is just reducing working sets from 3-5 to 1.
If you feel like you're working hard and not progressing, despite eating/sleeping well, try something like this and see if it helps. It's working for me, at least for the time being.
PPL works fine for me. I'm glad I did a 3 day full body for the first few months because PPL is a lot but I have plenty of time to recover. People like to hate on popular things to make themselves sound smarter. PPL is fine
It's my favorite just because I get to lift 6 days a week and usually I'm recovered in time sometimes I'm not though and have to take it easy that day and it can lead to overtraining at least it did for me
I would start with sl get a good grip on the basic barbell movements film your lifts and watch them make sure your form looks perfect before you start to really start overloading ,trouble with not starting with a strength program is you'll be doing baby weights and getting your session in will take forever put your trust in the fahves for like 2 or 3 months then hit a pplppl in the higher rep range that's what I did and many are impressed with how quickly my physic has gotten to where it is
How the fuck do you people count your calories? How do you know how much calories your food has? Do you only consume standardize food? Do you weight everything you eat? WTF? Explain this bullshit to me.
If youre lazy like me, heres what you can do.
Weigh your food autistically for 3 months, calculate exact calorie count on every single thing. Including seasoning.
After that you will be able to eyeball the rough calorie count of what youre eating.
be careful with restaurant foods though, they douze their food in oil, makes it hard to count.
I just don't know how to cook and I'm naturally lean. My grandma does all the cooking and the servings are never the same, which kinda makes it impossible to calculate anything.
When eating out I typically just assume they use double the oil/butter that I would use, worse case I'm over compensating and in turn eating less calories.
I might be stupid, but I do a Push/Pull split 6 days a week. Legs are built into the pushing (squat) and pulling (DL). Frequency is the key to hypertrophy.
naggerS could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this neighborhood before. There could be naggerS anywhere." The cool wind felt good against his bare chest. "I HATE naggerS" he thought. Sweet Dreams are Made of These reverberated his entire car, making it pulsate even as the $9 wine circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of minorities after dark. "With a car, you can go anywhere you want" he said to himself, out loud.
6d PPL is fine, all the DYELs in here are just mad that reddit has a version of it. Also if you're worried about volume just regulate what lifts you do on each day. It's that simple. You don't need to do a lot or overthink it.
It's a good program for incel redditors
If you have a life outside of the gym you quickly realize what a joke PPL is >sorry bros I can't go on that trip this weekend I'll miss a day of my workout >sorry I can't go on that hike date with you I have to do squats today
Be assured anyone recommending PPL is a socially dead incel trying to pull you back into the bucket.
You're ngmi if your program doesn't fit neatly into a 5 day week. The opportunity for social gains on the weekend is too great to pass up.
The next week is LPPLPXX. The way PPL programs work is you have a P, a P, L, then cross training days wherever it's needed. In your case that's Saturday and Sunday so you can hike and drink or whatever. Unless you are, getting paid a lot of money you should not plan your life around anything. Make them fit in your life.
how can people say stuff like this and not realize bars have been shut down places for 3 years now? And 23 year olds have to do post graduate programs now so by the time they're enjoyable to drink with life is too serious for them.
Do you think college and your mid 20's is some never ending frat movie where people get black out drunk every weekend at dance clubs that don't play only rap and you can still get party drugs that aren't cut with meth? What kind of self aggrandizing lie are you trying to spin here?
Training 6 days a week is for steroid users only. 3 days a week. If you are working properly you will need 48 hours to recover. You are breaking your body in order to build it up better than before this process isn't completed in 24 hours and there is a systemic fatigue component too.
It's taking 6 days to hit the muscle twice a week. Peak gymcel. I think brosplits are better than PPL and they're more tested than PPL too. Everyone acts like PPL is the default bodybuilder split when its entire history is some shit a dyel on reddit came up with because he wanted to hide from his parents by going to the gym every day. Tested bodybuilding splits are full body, half-body and brosplits, not PPL. Leg days twice a week then you tell people the other splits are t-rex mode. Everyone I see on PPL is sub 160lbs so your abs are nothing dude, you're small. >bro if I just take the Sabbath off my recovery will be just fine >urgghhhh um a 2pl8 squat is powershitter mode I just feel the burn with 125lb and get better tonnage this way
Personally, I think the reddit ppl is way too much for a beginner. Ppl itself is awesome tho if you scale it back.
Just think about the six main lifts and which muscles your are working on each day. Focus on one compound lift and then add a couple of isolation exercises for each workout.
Push days should work chest, shoulders, and middle delts. Pull should work upper back, biceps, and rear delts. Legs should work lower back, glutes, hamstrings, calves, and quads.
The workout I'm doing:
Push day 1 - incline db bench, egyptian cable raise, and rope tri extentions
Push day 2 - military press, pec deck, and triceps machine
Pull day 1 - lat pulldown, reverse pec deck, and rope hammer curls
Pull day 2 - machine row, face pulls, and biceps machine
Legs day 1 - goblet squat, leg curls, and seated calf raise
Legs day 2 - back extention, leg extention, and standing calf raise
PPL is a meme, you want to do a 3day full body program like SS if you're a beginner
I'm asking because I've been lifting the PPL routine since I began at the gym two and a half years ago, started at 120lb and now I'm at around 165lb now, been that weight for a while and still DYEL as fuck. would a 3x or 4x week split allow me to put on more muscle?
are you eating enough?
my diet has been consistent
>breakfast: protein shake (one scoop whey, banana, scoop of peanut butter, milk), coffee (another one later in the morning), fish oil tablet, vitamin d tablet
>lunch will be 3 eggs and 1 or 2 chicken breasts, sometimes oatmeal with seasame seeds but if I include that I'm usually very full.
>dinner is more varied but usually one full plate of veges and meat, salad, magnesium tablet around this time.
>often drink a few glasses of milk in the afternoon
>snack foods include almonds, crackers and cheese, on the unhealthier side sometimes potato crisps or corn chips with salsa
I tried counting calories in the beginning but generally I try to eat as much as I can
I'm 6'0 for context.
>
>I tried counting calories in the beginning but generally I try to eat as much as I can
You're a fucking idiot
If you aren't gaining weight, you clearly aren't eating enough. How is this a fucking hard concept?
If you're too stupid to eat enough to gain, count your calories.
well I often eat so much chicken i'd puke and it worked for a long while so I don't think I could take much more.
You're lying.
I've met many people like you who claim they eat "so much", all liars.
post your meals
Eat more carbs and fat.
You don't need that much protein ffs
As long as you're getting ~100g of protein a day you're good. Fill the rest of your diet out with carbs.
didnt read just eat more
Well to better answer your question, can you give more details on your PPL? Including weight, sets, reps, and perceived exertion. Assuming that you're lifting adequate weight in your major lifts, there isn't a pressing need to go to square 1 if you've been doing PPL for over 2 years already
Also, if you can afford it, think about following the vertical diet by Stan Efferding or the Weston A Price diet model. A lot of emphasis on nutrient dense, easy to digest foods which should help you to pack on mass
What clued me in that I was overtraining (or under-recovering), apart from lack of progress, was that I would often be even more sore two days after my last workout than the day after. Pretty obvious in hindsight, but I was too reluctant to deviate too much from the common formula. It's a shame because I got my OHP/bench to over 1/2pl8s in well under a year, but got stuck there for months afterwards. Now I'm back to adding a rep to my working set every week or two.
He has literally put 45lbs and you ask if he is eating enough? Pic rel is 163lbs.
The answer is he is eating too much, he has only gained fat and no muscle.
His problem is shitty training. He is simply not doing progressive overload and stimulating muscle growth.
Fuck off you dumb cunt, 163 is fuck all for 6 foot.
He hasn't gained ANY weight, he is not eating enough.
>gains 45lbs
>he hasn't gained ANY weight
My friend, do you have a learning disability?
He's made the thread because HE'S NOT GAINING ANY MORE WEIGHT
ANY
MORE
Obtuse fuck
Let's add some nuance bros. His maintenance clearly increased and is higher at 163lbs than when he started, and now he's plateaud. So to continue to add weight, he needs to either eat more or decrease TDEE (at which point a 4-day split might be useful).
Training doesn't burn anywhere near that much calories and training less will decrease his appetite which is the opposite of what he wants.
Have any of you trained a single day in your life or are you all really this stupid?
>Pic rel is 163lbs.
manlet
Similar to other anons are saying are you still progressing weight wise? If not are you experiencing any signs of overtraining? If you’ve been lifting for 2.5 years I wouldn’t consider you a beginner, doesn’t hurt to switch things up if you feel like you’re stalling.
Full body takes all day. I'm more likely to get it done if it's just a compound + a couple of isolations.
If it takes more than 90 minutes you should be doing an intermediate program or get off your phone
Only if you do full body by isolating every muscle lmao
other way around
starting strength is an intermediate program but copy pasted by fat nerds online who dont workout
SS is not a program for putting on muscle, its a program for powerlifting and staying a dyel but telling yourself squatting more will change that (it wont)
if you arent logging your calories then your "diet" is meaningless because you have no idea what your macros are
youre literally just fucking around and hoping that its "enough"
not typing any more advice for this lazy fuck
I'd personally recommend a full body 3x week split because IMO you should focus on the basics until you've mastered them, and then by the time you're done, you've built enough strength to move meaningful weight by the time you transition to PPL
How would you divide the body 3 ways other than ppl?
You don't. You do full body. 3x a week. So an example would be workouts A, B, and C.
A has back squats, Romanian deadlifts, bench Press, and bent row
B has deadlifts at heavy weight low reps, lunges, OHP, and pull ups
C has front squats, deadlifts at moderate weight higher volume, upright rows, and abs
it's fine for beginner to advanced depending on how you split up your days. It's slightly more complicated to program around than fullbodies which is the only reason I'd potentially discourage it but if you know what you're doing you can make any split work. Effective programming makes a bigger difference than routine of xyz days.
Burnout or accumulating fatigue is going to happen no matter what routine you run and it's not a bad thing it's just another obstacle programming helps you solve.
You should find out the minimum volume you need to progress and only try increasing it once you stall. I wasted months of gains by trusting le science on the "10-20 sets/week @RPE8" thing until I figured out I was overtraining. Turns out I progress much better doing just one hard working set per exercise three times per week, plus some lighter warmup/practice sets far from failure.
>Turns out I progress much better doing just one hard working set per exercise three times per week
can you clarify this remark? is it like 3x10 3 times a week but one set per session actually taken close to failure? Or like 1 set of each exercise per session?
It's 6 compound exercises per session (horizontal/vertical pull/push, hinge, squat) three times per week. For each exercise, I do a warm up set or two, then a working set with 70-90% of my 1RM @RPE 8-10, and maybe one or two more sets for practice afterwards, primarily when my working set was in the upper end of the load range just to get some extra reps in. The difference to what I did before, when I was plateauing big time, is just reducing working sets from 3-5 to 1.
If you feel like you're working hard and not progressing, despite eating/sleeping well, try something like this and see if it helps. It's working for me, at least for the time being.
oh so you are doing something like pyramid sets
Yes the Reddit PPL is great.
I've done both SL and PPL as a beginner and I made far better gains on the PPL and didn't end up looking like a t rex
Just put more rest days if it's too much volume. It doesn't have to repeat every 7 days.
it's fine.
The most important split is the one you stick to.
Do PPLxULxx instead. Thank me later.
Nice just need an 8 day week
>Is a 6 day PPL a good routine
Yes
>for a beginner
No
I always laugh my ass off at natties training 6 days a week
You might huwt yoself anon :((
New guy here. Calisthenics? Meme or not? I don't have money for gym membership right now.
yeah chinups dips etc get you shredded, basically train like a gymnast
PPL is good if it's a 3 day split. 6 days is too much and will lead to overtraining and stalling since you won't have time to rest and recover.
PPL works fine for me. I'm glad I did a 3 day full body for the first few months because PPL is a lot but I have plenty of time to recover. People like to hate on popular things to make themselves sound smarter. PPL is fine
It's my favorite just because I get to lift 6 days a week and usually I'm recovered in time sometimes I'm not though and have to take it easy that day and it can lead to overtraining at least it did for me
I would start with sl get a good grip on the basic barbell movements film your lifts and watch them make sure your form looks perfect before you start to really start overloading ,trouble with not starting with a strength program is you'll be doing baby weights and getting your session in will take forever put your trust in the fahves for like 2 or 3 months then hit a pplppl in the higher rep range that's what I did and many are impressed with how quickly my physic has gotten to where it is
>too much volume?
that entirely depends on what youre doing in the gym lmao.
You know you can have the same total volume as full body 2x week
How the fuck do you people count your calories? How do you know how much calories your food has? Do you only consume standardize food? Do you weight everything you eat? WTF? Explain this bullshit to me.
yes, you weigh ingredients. there are calorie tracker apps that do the math for you after that.
That would imply I cook my own meals.
That is half of your problem then
If youre lazy like me, heres what you can do.
Weigh your food autistically for 3 months, calculate exact calorie count on every single thing. Including seasoning.
After that you will be able to eyeball the rough calorie count of what youre eating.
be careful with restaurant foods though, they douze their food in oil, makes it hard to count.
I just don't know how to cook and I'm naturally lean. My grandma does all the cooking and the servings are never the same, which kinda makes it impossible to calculate anything.
When eating out I typically just assume they use double the oil/butter that I would use, worse case I'm over compensating and in turn eating less calories.
I might be stupid, but I do a Push/Pull split 6 days a week. Legs are built into the pushing (squat) and pulling (DL). Frequency is the key to hypertrophy.
naggerS could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this neighborhood before. There could be naggerS anywhere." The cool wind felt good against his bare chest. "I HATE naggerS" he thought. Sweet Dreams are Made of These reverberated his entire car, making it pulsate even as the $9 wine circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of minorities after dark. "With a car, you can go anywhere you want" he said to himself, out loud.
Sorry to break this too you Honkey, but you are the nagger.
6 day ppl is a joke if its al lifting.
its goated if the 6 days are p, cardio, p, cardio, l, cardio
6 day PPL is retarded even if lifting is the only fitness related activity you do.
6d PPL is fine, all the DYELs in here are just mad that reddit has a version of it. Also if you're worried about volume just regulate what lifts you do on each day. It's that simple. You don't need to do a lot or overthink it.
It's a good program for incel redditors
If you have a life outside of the gym you quickly realize what a joke PPL is
>sorry bros I can't go on that trip this weekend I'll miss a day of my workout
>sorry I can't go on that hike date with you I have to do squats today
Be assured anyone recommending PPL is a socially dead incel trying to pull you back into the bucket.
You're ngmi if your program doesn't fit neatly into a 5 day week. The opportunity for social gains on the weekend is too great to pass up.
you realise you can just do PPLPPXX, retard
>only hitting legs once a week
Absolutely fine if you're lifting for aesthetics
The next week is LPPLPXX. The way PPL programs work is you have a P, a P, L, then cross training days wherever it's needed. In your case that's Saturday and Sunday so you can hike and drink or whatever. Unless you are, getting paid a lot of money you should not plan your life around anything. Make them fit in your life.
how can people say stuff like this and not realize bars have been shut down places for 3 years now? And 23 year olds have to do post graduate programs now so by the time they're enjoyable to drink with life is too serious for them.
Do you think college and your mid 20's is some never ending frat movie where people get black out drunk every weekend at dance clubs that don't play only rap and you can still get party drugs that aren't cut with meth? What kind of self aggrandizing lie are you trying to spin here?
What is a good 3 days per week program to do? I kinda want to do 3 days weightlifting and 3 days swimming per week.
Training 6 days a week is for steroid users only. 3 days a week. If you are working properly you will need 48 hours to recover. You are breaking your body in order to build it up better than before this process isn't completed in 24 hours and there is a systemic fatigue component too.
It's taking 6 days to hit the muscle twice a week. Peak gymcel. I think brosplits are better than PPL and they're more tested than PPL too. Everyone acts like PPL is the default bodybuilder split when its entire history is some shit a dyel on reddit came up with because he wanted to hide from his parents by going to the gym every day. Tested bodybuilding splits are full body, half-body and brosplits, not PPL. Leg days twice a week then you tell people the other splits are t-rex mode. Everyone I see on PPL is sub 160lbs so your abs are nothing dude, you're small.
>bro if I just take the Sabbath off my recovery will be just fine
>urgghhhh um a 2pl8 squat is powershitter mode I just feel the burn with 125lb and get better tonnage this way
Which brosplit should I do after PPL?
PHUL has been great for me and easier on my joints/hands and time.
how much time does your uppers take? i tried it and it takes me like 2hours.
Yes.
today I finally learned what PPL means
Personally, I think the reddit ppl is way too much for a beginner. Ppl itself is awesome tho if you scale it back.
Just think about the six main lifts and which muscles your are working on each day. Focus on one compound lift and then add a couple of isolation exercises for each workout.
Push days should work chest, shoulders, and middle delts. Pull should work upper back, biceps, and rear delts. Legs should work lower back, glutes, hamstrings, calves, and quads.
The workout I'm doing:
Push day 1 - incline db bench, egyptian cable raise, and rope tri extentions
Push day 2 - military press, pec deck, and triceps machine
Pull day 1 - lat pulldown, reverse pec deck, and rope hammer curls
Pull day 2 - machine row, face pulls, and biceps machine
Legs day 1 - goblet squat, leg curls, and seated calf raise
Legs day 2 - back extention, leg extention, and standing calf raise